Liverpool fans discuss the sale of Philippe Coutinho and Arsenal fans blame Stan Kroenke for the club’s rotten structure, all in our forum.
Join in the debate here…
Bring back Coutinho…
Ox is a good player and hopefully keita will be too but sorry coutinho will just improve this team. Coutinho pulling strings behind mane salah and firmino is a dream attack.
We definitely miss coutinho ..most of the teams we play these days will park the bus (even chelsea at the bridge imagine that) and thats where we miss his eye for a pass, dribbling ability to get pass players and shooting ability from outside the box to break the deadlock. Lets face it all our current midfielders are pretty shit at shooting. Against brighton we were poor in the 1st half and in the 2nd half salah start to drop deep and dribble past players from midfield and we looked better. If ee had Coutinho he couldve done that from.the 1st half.
Citys midfield are so.fucking brilliant because they got 2 coutinho type.players in b silva and d silva whos composed on the ball can dribble, pass and shoot.
I would take back coutinho in a heartbeat.
‘I wouldn’t give up Van Dijk for love nor money’
Coutinho’s qualities are self-evident to any Liverpool supporter at this stage. It goes without saying that we (and any team) would miss them. You have to consider what we’ve got now that we wouldn’t have if we still had Coutinho. It just isn’t logical or rational to think about missing X, that you sold to pay for Y, that you are also currently praising.
When you take into consideration what we were able to pay for by selling Coutinho then no, we don’t miss him.
I wouldn’t give up Van Dijk for love nor money and I think it’s widely accepted (rightly or wrongly) that Coutinho’s sale paid for Van Dijk. An over-simplification perhaps but his transfer has likely been factored in for some time and has paid for substantial chunks of a number of our transfers. The fact remain though that the money for Van Dijk and others had to come from somewhere and if we look at what Coutinho gave us, what we had before and what we have now then you’re surely saying that we’ve come out really good.
With Coutinho we could score a lot of goals. The variety of goal types was maybe better than now as you’re right, we don;t have that long-range threat now. However, I think we’re better now than before in breaking buses down. We’re also more resilient off the ball now. Our actual defence though is night and day to what it was then. Van Dijk, Gomez, Robertson and Alisson have turned us from a weak team defensively, into one of the best defences in the world. Again, the value of Coutinho’s transfer there is intangible but that’s not to say that it isn’t a telling parameter. £100-£140m goes a long way when it is spent well and we have spent so well.
I’ve only touched on what Coutinho lacked in this but I’ve said it before. He wasn’t a perfect player. He was very far from being a perfect player but we got the kind of price that you get for this type of competition and you’d forgive Barca fans who looked at his highlights, for thinking that they were getting much more for their money than we gave them.
All that said, I’d absolutely love to have him in our side but not as a CM. I think he’d do well in our 4231, playing ahead of Wijnaldum and Fabinho. I mean, with those 2 and us not relying on the press, his poor defensive/off the ball skills could be forgiven.
Ultimately though it’s all moot as there’s no F-ing way that i give up our new and improved defense, or other signings (besides Keita – so far *cross-fingers*) just to bring someone back, who can help us break down staunch defences that we’re actually doing much better than when he was even here anyway.
The purchase of VVD had nothing to do with the sale of Coutinho.
Coutinho left because PSG bought Neymar and Barca then came to unsettle Coutinho.
This all happened AFTER it came to light that we were extremely close to signing VVD in summer 2017 but because we jumped the gun and let that go public Southampton withdrew from the deal.
If things hadda went to plan VVD woulda been a Reds player before Neymar was even sold.
I still think VVD’s arrival was contingent on the sale of Coutinho. Yes, VVD could have arrived in the summer had it not for us jumping the gun but you can’t tell us for sure that we would not have sold Coutinho that summer. I recall strong interest from Barca at that time.
Jan 2017 we’re initially linked with VVD.
Shortly after Coutinho signs new deal.
Releases statement saying how happy etc he is.
Early summer 2017 our interest in VVD solidifies and news of it comes out in the media. Everyone saying we’re close to completion.
Southampton arnt happy and pull back from finalising.
Start of Aug 2017 PSG swoops for Neymar paying what was thought at the time the ridiculous buy out clause.
The transfer market is never the same again, prices have rocketed.
Barca now have a whole to fill. They didn’t think they’d lose Neymar.
It’s only at this stage they come looking for Coutinho and make multiple bids.
Eventually Coutinho puts in transfer request but we hold firm until Jan.
So it’s quite clear, we would have signed VVD before Coutinho was even a serious target for Barca. They lost Neymar which they didn’t want and it was that, that precipitated the move for Coutinho.
Coutinho ‘was holding us back”
Coutinho’s sale was one of the best thing that happened to the club in recent years right after the capture of Klopp by FSG. Don’t get me wrong I don’t dislike Phil or think that he is an average player but I think he was holding us back especially in his last two seasons.
He had practically grown bigger than the club and Klopp, was the star after Gerrard left and as such was able to don the mantle of play maker demanding the ball from his team mates and (Klopp alluded as much) was even ignoring the manager’s instructions to do what he wanted on the pitch.
Now for a player to be granted such latitude a player needs to be in the same league as Gerrard, Pirlo or Zidane but Phil was/is more in the same bracket as Eriksen or Modric.
In Sep 2017 he returned from a mysterious back injury and we drew against Burnley at home and Newcastle with a win against Leicester sandwiched in between and then drew against Utd and lost 4-1 against Spurs whereas just before his return we had beaten Palace and Arsenal (4-0) at home. The draws against Burnley and Newcastle were not due to defensive errors because we conceded only 1 goal in these matches. That’s why you are absolutely right Mak, he was not a game changer when we needed to break teams who parked the bus.
How many times did we see him have speculative shots from distance that went high in the stands in the last 10 minutes against relegation candidates when we absolutely needed to score? And his desire to orchestrate things was hampering us as the opposition had only to man mark and we suddenly looked toothless. Our football was one dimensional and opposition managers were having an easy task when they had to devise ways to frustrate us.
I’m grateful to Fsg for having brought Klopp, the man who saw that though Phil was a joy to watch when he was on song, we would be better without him.
Look at Kroenke for answers
A few people saying that Gazidis and Wenger have left us with this current mess.Firstly,gazidis was not as bad as people made him out to be.Under him,we factually generated the second most revenue in england,even after considering the absolute horrific transfer dealings we conducted over the years.Yes,I hold gazidis respnisble for those transfers dealings,but also credit him for increasing the value of our club.I personally do think he was ambitious and had a clear plan and structure put into place.But what he was an absolute two faced prick who made a clear plan and left before he could even put it into place.
However,the more pressing issue is what all has gone on after he’s left.He was one who wanted ramsey to stay but as soon as he left the contract offer got rescinded.Then our chief scout mislintat is leaving the club(someone who we did very well to get in),the manager emery was a good appointment but there is no money to spend and a lot of emphasis has to be placed on that.
Things have gotten considerably worse.But even for the sake of argument for anyone who thinks that gazidis and wenger are responsible,you guys do realise that Stan kronke had the power to sack either of them if not both,at any point in the last 10 years.But he didn’t,probably because he dosen’t care.
All routes lead back to Kronke,the gap between where we are and what this club is capable of is a gazillion miles all because the owner dosen’t give two shits about the club and only cares about profit or how much his share is increasing by.
Kronke still being at this club,it almost makes me fall out of love with this sport let alone club all together.There’s no hope with him at the helm,it’s as simple as that so I urge all fans to do all the necessary steps to force him to sell all his stake at the club to someone who genuinely cares about our success.
The club structure is rotten and that was the case when Ivan and Wenger was here as well.
Yes the major problem is Kroenke but remember Gazidis and Wenger are responsible for the salaries and deals that were made. Yes Gazidis made more money come in but he also wasted a lot of that. So are things worse well with or without Ivan we would have been here anyway. He would have signed off on Ramseys bumper deal which would have locked us in financially even more.
muffler – It is pretty much irrelevant putting the blame on Either Gazidis or wenger…As I’ve said and a lot of emphasis should be placed on the fact that Kronke had the power to sack both or either of them at any given point of time.He chose not to because of either of the 3 things if not all of them.
1.He dosen’t care enough of what’s going on at the club
2.The standards and ambitions set by him are so low that even he probably thought they were doing a fine job or even overachieving
3.All he is ever interested is profits and increasing the value of his shares without putting in a single penny towards the success of this club.
All Im saying it makes no difference whoever is at the place of Ivan so no we are not worse off without him as you stated. It does not matter one bit who we have there.
Ivan was nothing special fact of the matter is that money was pooring in left and right anyway. Hell he signed a deal with a person who had no connection to the company that Ivan thought he signed with. He was also useless negotiating player contracts. Kroenke was never going to use his own money. Ivan knew that and still made calls to overpay huge money to players. With this model you cant do that.
Yes Kroenke could have sacked them but it was not until we failed to reach CL the cardhouse he built started to crumble. Ivan left because the jig was up as he knew it would get harder moneywise. He was a rat that left us in a sorry state knowing full well Kroenke would not save his ass. So sorry Ivan is not excused regardless of me not liking Kroenke either
Marcelo for United?
What do you guys think of Marcelo as a signing? He’s lost his place at Real Madrid recently and seems to be interested in moving to Juventus to reunite with Ronaldo however I honestly think that having him (as an established, top level player even at the age of 30) competing with Shaw for that spot would be great – might teach him how to attack too.
Wonder how much Real Madrid would ask for him though. Still probably the best left back in the world on his day.
Sympathy for the devils
De Ligt battle
The gossip in Holland is that City is closing in for De ligt. United would be very stupid to let this rising star pass to City!! We need a great young central defender and he has all the tools to be that player!!
Kompany is on his last legs so Pep is no doubt looking for a long term replacement. Stones is erratic at best so I can easily see City wanting this kid. We should go all out for him imho. He’s a beast of a young fella.
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